With your hands closer together on the bar and your feet in a wider stance, your torso can assume a more upright position. If you were standing on a clock, that'd be left toes pointing between 11 and 12, right toes pointing between 12 and 1. This position should allow you to keep the knees out. Show Printable Version; 12-02-2018, 08:29 AM #1. exter. Finally, the ultra wide stance and significant toe flare typically employed on the sumo deadlift can create inflammation in the hips as well as promote dysfunctional and unnatural lower body mechanics. Okay, so today I asked to … A study was conducted to compare EMG (Electromyography) activity in the leg muscles between the Sumo and conventional deadlift. 88% Upvoted. If not, do … So, when you take into account that hip extension occurs in three dimensions and not just in the sagittal (front-to-back) plane, it becomes clear that stance width doesn’t affect hip extension demands in any meaningful way. Stiff Leg Cable Deadlifts - Variations - Narrow Stance, and Wide Stance. Brown. If you must pull conventional, perhaps pulling with a narrow stance would keep your back from rounding because you wont have to reach as far in the starting position. Excessive motion -- swaying, leaning and tilting during your swing -- can produce all manner of ugly mishits and misdirected shots. In general, the first visible result is achieved after two-three weeks of doing at least 60 squats with narrow stance three-four times every week. Over time, the recessive forces exerted on the knee could lead to patellar tendon strains or tendonitis. level 1. Generally speaking, during a powerlift type squat (bar lower behind the shoulders and a wider stance) the knee does not travel forward as far as a bodybuilding type squat. I say that because of the stance of the feet. If you aren't driving off your heels, you'll probably activate more quad. If you get to full depth by moving your knees forward, as in a full depth high-bar or front squat, that's not going to increase hamstring involvement. It just looks and feels cool, man. I hear some folks preaching about using a shoulder-width stance for deadlifts, and others who pontificate about hip-width. I go with a wider stance and grip just outside my feet. The motion is conducive to isolating these muscles. Similarly, it's knees sliding forward that favors quads over hamstrings. The deadlift requires you to use a barbell deadlift while in a wide or narrow stance depending on your current athletic performance. There are no competitions where the winner is decided upon who squatted the lowest. Once the shins are placed firmly against the bar, you will sit back and pull yourself into and under the bar. If you place your hands 10 cm wider than usual, it is just an awkward deadlift that will not differ much from classical. If the arms are just about touching the thighs, then your grip is good. Because you’re much stronger in a conventional deadlift than the snatch-grip deadlift you’ll handle more volume without a ton of neural fatigue. I call these Opposite Deadlifts. I often get clients coming to me who have been lifting before and want to get their form checked. And of course we all have individual variables, in mobility and skeletal and muscular structure etc. Deadlift question - hands narrow or wide? FULL 12 WEEK PUSH,PULL,LEGS PROGRAM!- BUILD MUSCLE & STRENGTH! Wide grip deadlift is usually called "snatch grip deadlift". More people squat in Oly shoes than deadlift in them, I dare say, but you won’t see many pro powerlifters in them, so that must mean something. The narrow stance lift is usually a simpler movement to learn than the sumo style an calls for power in the quads, flexible ankles and a strong back and abdominal wall. Recently I’ve been seeing a lot of people using a deadlift stance that is too wide. However, it's very hard to go from a close stance to a wide stance. Probably because I haven't practiced it enough, but conventional-narrow has always felt strongest for me. I can't get shit off the ground if I pull sumo. Do you think the 10 pound difference may have been a daily fluctuation more than a stance issue? Finally, the ultra wide stance and significant toe flare typically employed on the sumo deadlift can create inflammation in the hips as well as promote dysfunctional and unnatural lower body mechanics. Some info/pointers would be appreciated bros. 09-14-2012, 01:42 PM. On the rare occasion I do box squats, I'll take the stance out a bit wider. I think classic vs equipped and narrow vs wide stance play big roles. If I go wider conventional, I feel tighter and more stable, I think it's because I have fatty legs. Wide or Narrow - "Sumo" or "Conventional"? Posts: 226 Re: Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift) Quote: Originally Posted by Martha Lamb. Press J to jump to the feed. I'm about an inch past shoulder width on my stance now. I was wondering if anyone had any input on this topic. The squat-stance deadlift essentially combines the benefits from both the sumo and conventional deadlift while eliminating the inherent weaknesses of each. Wide or Narrow - "Sumo" or "Conventional"? Too narrow a stance causes problems in a different way, but they still relate to depth. Lifters commonly use too wide a grip in the deadlift and too narrow a grip in the clean. Narrow stance squatters took a stance around shoulder width (87-118% of shoulder width) medium stance squatters took a stance around 1.25-1.5x shoulder width, and wide stance squatters took a stance around 1.5-2x shoulder width. If it's the gear, how does it help them squat so wide? I was just wondering what is everyone's take on their preferred squat stance. However, while it’s important that the grip is narrow, it should still allow the arms and thighs to remain apart. Thread Tools. If the answer is yes, do sumo. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. If not, do … You can too. It took me a few weeks to get use to a wider stance. When both errors occur in the same lifter, there's a good chance he's also lost sight of the main focus of each lift and the impact that small differences in technique make as the weight gets heavy. "Forward lean" usually refer to torso angle. I have my feet about 1-2 inches from the sides of the squat rack usually. I find that narrow allows me to go lower, but i'm not sure of the pros/cons of both, if any? 6. Still not convinced? Remember the more reps you do, the faster you gain the benefits of this wonderful exercise. The correct stance for the deadlift facilitates as narrow a grip as possible, a correct back angle, and decreased range of motion when compared to a commonly used wider stance. This can happen due to prioritizing comfort, copying other lifters, lax coaching, or rushing during setup. If your federation does not judge depth, go ahead and use a wide stance. I personally find narrow is good for me, but i also have a strong back and have never had an issue with my back. Or for people to tell /u/WeaponizedSleep to eat more. Best cue for me was set up as if you were trying to a standing high jump. One huge mistake is when people try to deadlift too wide on the sumo. Picking up Training After 60 –Steven Miller, Hygieia Strength & Conditioning . X 3 Deadlift (single ply): 441 lbs. full 12 week push,pull,legs program!- build muscle & strength! Ideally, assume a wide stance that places the shins in a position where they are perpendicular to the floor. I usually end up doing heavy back squats in a wider stance (sligtly smaller ROM). Closed stance being more quad-dominate, while wider stance being more posterior chain? If the answer is yes, do sumo. It may be that you really have no other options but to try, which may not be cheap. The gear forces a wider stance to get the most out of the leverages. View Full Version : Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift) Dane Peagler. This emphasizes the stronger hip extensors and adductors and consequently reduces knee extensor involvement. The sumo deadlift is a misunderstood exercise. There’s no hard and fast rule with how narrow your stance should be to be considered a semi sumo deadlift. Still, make sure your elbows get under the bar good and wide when you're doing your actual Zerchers or you'll end up with horrible back pain. That being said, if you're pulling conventional with a wide stance, you're effectively increasing the range of motion. But golfers also need freedom of motion to swing and turn for powerful, accurate shots. This is especially true for wide-stance lifts like the sumo deadlift. Grip be damned, I prefer a higher rep approach with snatch grip deadlifts. Golfers need to stay balanced on every shot. I think classic vs equipped and narrow vs wide stance play big roles. But I don't think box squats really help me that much. A Narrow Vs. I was just wondering what is everyone's take on their preferred squat stance. Olympic lifters are likely to go fairly narrow for a carryover to the lifts, powerlifters do whatever lets them move the most weight. I'm mostly only interested in IPF classic lifting so my views are skewed because of that. My toes are usually under the cross bar in our racks when I squat, I've been reading through Arnold's bodybuilding encyclopaedia. I need to work on my chin tuck, but mostly I just want to avoid injuries. Wide-stance deadlifts are performed from a standing position holding either a barbell or a dumbbell in each hand. If I put on briefs or a suit I will take wide or a very wide stance. Member Profile: Join Date: Feb 2009. The most relevant measurements for our purposes here … Jamie Lewis wrote an article analyzing various elite lifters and how there is a lot of variation among them. The wide-stance half-squats commonly observed in the suit-and-wraps recreational federations demonstrate this effect quite nicely. A subreddit for general weight training discussion, focused on intermediate level and above in experience and strength, for those ranging from strength sport competitors, sports that benefit from weight training, or weight training enthusiasts. Ive been doing both pretty recently and it seems like narrow stance is so much harder. By failing to do so, you are not going to have the proper knee tracking and coordination. That stance has the best all around carroyover to the things I care about and train for. By Georges, December 4, 2014 in Strength Training! With the squat-stance deadlift you'll pull with the strongest, safest, and most efficient biomechanics, which means less injury and more progress. Close. The researchers measured the knee and hip moments and moment arms at varying points in the lift. Wide as fuck. Wide vs narrow stance Hi rip, Was having some knee issues doing very wide stance squats. Wide Golf Stance. More from Starting Strength. Knee torque is further reduced by a wide stance. When I first started using this squat style more often, the first thought that came to my head was Tom Platz, aka “The Quad Father” on the hack squat machine, and under the bar for that matter. Also, it seems like a lot of geared powerlifters take crazy wide stances. it seems like a lot of geared powerlifters take crazy wide stances. X 1 Powerlifting Total (single ply): 1116 lbs. It's all about your goals. Without knowing you, or your body proportions, it's hard to say which stance would be best. Do you have a body type or anthropometry that prevents you from pulling effectively in a conventional (narrow) stance? Hey all. What makes deadlift so popular and loved by many athletes and gym-goers is that it provides numerous benefits for many muscle groups. My question is, would you all say you find narrow or wide stance more effective? Thread Tools. Wide Stance Squats? 4-Sumo Deadlifts Hit the Quads and Glutes a Little Better! So, when you take into account that hip extension occurs in three dimensions and not just in the sagittal (front-to-back) plane, it becomes clear that stance width doesn’t affect hip extension demands in any meaningful way. Thanks! Wide stance Deadlift vs Narrow. I would bet a lot of it has to do with the width of your hips vs the width of your shoulders, what works best. This is because the wider foot position used for sumo deadlifts lets you bring your thighs much lower to the floor. I suppose if you take a narrow squat stance and rely heavily on quads rather than hip drive, they’d probably improve numbers. This position puts more of the load on the … Thread: Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift) View Single Post 08-14-2010, 03:12 PM Eric A. The deadlift stimulates so many muscles that it’s nearly a complete all-in-one movement with the exception of the chest, triceps, and shoulders. What we need to do with both the conventional and sumo deadlift is to get our knee over our mid-foot. Thread: Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift) View Single Post 08-11-2010, 04:36 AM Eric Montgomery. X 1 Incline Bench Press (raw): 225 lbs. But How? share. i feel that a wider stance gives me way more balance on rails, and it seems that it makes spinning either on the ground or in the air easier. Front squats I do on a smaller stance, enabling me to go ATTG. The semi sumo deadlift has also been called the narrow sumo deadlift or hybrid sumo deadlift. He used to position his feet extremely close and perform the movement for a variety of reasons, one of them being quad hypertrophy. Followers 0. It just looks and feels cool, man. If you pull sumo, adding in conventional pulls will build your regular stance. The most relevant measurements for our purposes here … Member Profile: Join Date: Jul 2010. More posterior chain activation and shorter range of motion mostly. Time and mobility work. 8 years ago. Posted December 4, 2014. Bench (raw): 325 lbs. If it's the gear, how does it help them squat so wide? Most of the best shoes for weight training (both Olympic and powerlifting) have at least one lateral (metatarsal) strap in addition to the laces to further secure the shoes to your feet. Use whatever you are strongest at for competition. The most common Deadlift stances are 2, but if you’ve got some experience at the gym you might be familiar with the third one as well, which shouldn’t be performed. Deadlift question - hands narrow or wide? hide. um, are you certain? 08-11-2010, 12:40 AM. Finally fixed my squat, wanted to see what you all thought of Scott Herman's "Why you're not lifting as much as you could" video. No problem! Reply to this topic; Start new topic; Prev; 1; 2; Next; Page 1 of 2 . That being said, if you're pulling conventional with a wide stance, you're effectively increasing the range of motion. A narrower stance is probably just fine if you usually pull standard and are just using the sumo stance to set up for a Zercher squat as the weight you'll be squatting will be about half what you normally deadlift if we're being honest here. I'm ending on 315X5, no issues yet. Two chief options for foot positioning exist: a narrow or conventional stance or a wide or sumo stance. They are entirely different. X 3 Weighted Pullups: BW + 90 lbs. An extremely narrow grip may cause the arms to interfere with the knees and force them inwards. The conventional deadlift has a greater range of knee extension and involves the spinal erectors to a greater degree than the sumo style deadlift. Wide vs narrow stance; Results 1 to 2 of 2 Thread: Wide vs narrow stance. If the stance really feels bad and form breaks down don't do it. Member Profile: Join Date: Feb 2009. 3 DEADLIFT SET UPS 3 DEADLIFT SET UPS. My lower back is a strong suit though. However, with the conventional deadlift, the distance that the bar has to travel from the floor to the hips is significantly greater. Always thought that the wider you go, the less stress on the knees and the more on the … That's especially true if your grip is wider as well. In high school football workouts the coaches didn't which one you chose. X 1 Weighted Dips: BW + 110 lbs. Your feet should be wider than shoulder-width apart and turned outward, much like the pose a sumo wrestler adopts. But, there is a secret to finding out what stance is best for you. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Squat what's comfortable. JP says he prefers a wider grip on the barbell because a narrower grip, where the hands are either inside or on top of the quads at lock-out, will make it harder to get the shoulders back (a mandatory position for a competitive powerlifter). I'm right about at shoulder width, full ROM. Thread: Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift) View Single Post 08-14-2010, 10:03 PM Eric Montgomery. Posted by 5 years ago. With regard to a stance being more quad or ham/glute dominant, that depends on a few things; stance width only being one. Posts: 7,413 Re: Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift) Do you have a body type or anthropometry that prevents you from pulling effectively in a conventional (narrow) stance? The sumo deadlift, a popular alternative, is characterized by a wider foot stance with the hands placed inside the knees at about shoulder-width apart. EMG readings also reveal that the trapezius muscles of the back are more engaged in the sumo version. This thread is archived. Thread: Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift) View Single Post 08-17-2010, 08:15 PM S.S. 09-14-2012, 01:16 PM #1. It may be that you really have no other options but to try, which may not be cheap. This causes the conventional deadlift to have a more horizontal trunk angle during the setup than the other forms of the deadlift. I frequently see room for improvement with more lifters than you think. Placing the grip wider is my preference so that the hands are outside of the quads at lockout. I'm just stronger that way which is the goal. Stance is different for everyone though as mentioned by some others. Tips. For raw training I'll use close stance and moderately wide stance. As a wide stance squatter, whatever you decide, make sure that your shoes have a metatarsal strap, a thin/non-existent or non-compressible sole, and if they don’t at least give arch support, make sure the side of the shoe is reinforced so that you can push out against it (some people call this cue “spreading the floor”). If you're going full ROM you'll get more ham/glute involvement. By comparison, reaching squat depth with a wide stance requires a lifter to maintain a more vertical shin position than a narrow stance. Location: San Diego CA. Also, you won’t be able to flex your quads and move your hips properly through both movements. It really depends on the person and their strengths IMO. Deadlift narrow stance. I've seen guys do the legs outside the arms conventional pull for huge numbers but I've never tried it. Many powerlifters opt for the sumo deadlift as the wide stance used in the exercise shortens the range of motion and allows the lifter to pull a greater amount of weight. Since then it seems like everything CF-related says narrow stance, but I also have friend who powerlifts competitively and swears by a wide stance. Support StartingStrength.com. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. This means the feet will be anywhere from 2-3 feet apart when measuring from the outside of the feet. In a narrow stance, the bar doesn't have to travel as far. If you are a squatter whose squat stance is not ultra-wide but wider than a close stance, the hybrid sumo stance might also be for you. When it comes to proper execution of the squat-stance deadlift, the position and mechanics should feel very simple and natural. Use different stances for training purposes. I'm ending on 315X5, no issues yet. I try to incorporate both in my routine. Is it just me or is it true that a smaller stance enables the quads a bit more whereas you target glutes and hams a bit more on a wider stance? Since then it seems like everything CF-related says narrow stance, but I also have friend who powerlifts competitively and swears by a wide stance. Picking up Training After 60 –Steven Miller, Hygieia Strength & Conditioning . Registered. The Sumo Deadlift — You're Doing It the Wrong Way . If the answer is yes, do sumo. I say that because of the stance of the feet. For the narrow stance, most of that length is in the sagittal plane, and for the wide stance, it’s partially in the sagittal plane and partially in the frontal plane. Great people have succeeded with either style. This causes the sumo deadlift to have a more vertical trunk angle and resembling more of a squat movement than the other forms of the deadlift do. http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/a-case-for-wide-squats/. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the powerlifting community, A subreddit for the sport of powerlifting, Press J to jump to the feed. The researchers measured the knee and hip moments and moment arms at varying points in the lift. You’ll be similar to a squat stance, helping you recruit your legs into the lift a bit more.-Torso: Here, adopt a forward lean at roughly 45%. Your feet shouldn't be as wide as your normal squat stance, but also shouldn't be as narrow as your normal deadlift stance either. Also how tall are you, because some of the taller lifters like a kid who is 6'8 at my school really struggle when his feet are inside his shoulders. It can take upwards of two years to relearn the movement and develop the flexibility, especially if the lifter is very tight. That's especially true if your grip is wider as well. I also deadlift with a narrow stance. It is a much more technical set-up than the conventional stance, but one that is not hard to learn. Depends on what you consider "wide". The conventional deadlift has a greater range of knee extension and involves the spinal erectors to a greater degree than the sumo style deadlift. Barbell Curl: 140 lbs. Also i feel like my glutes are so much more sore from wide stance. TexasTech92. I'm mostly only interested in IPF classic lifting so my views are skewed because of that. Location: San Diego CA. In high school football workouts the coaches didn't which one you chose. If your hamstrings or abs are weak, you're going to be more quad dominant because you'll have more forward lean, thereby shifting the load on to your quads. Archived. It's definitely shoulder width or a bit less. Try a few different ways and see what feels best. Programming the Snatch Grip Deadlift. The most common Deadlift stances are 2, but if you’ve got some experience at the gym you might be familiar with the third one as well, which shouldn’t be performed. As the name implies, the sumo deadlift forces lifters to assume a wide stance bringing them closer to the ground and allowing them to keep their torso up taller. My mobility is okay--something to work on, but not something hobbling me--but if I make my stance too wide, my hips get angry and tell me to knock it off by seizing up. If you are a squatter whose squat stance is not ultra-wide but wider than a close stance, the hybrid sumo stance might also be for you. Having a short torso and long limbs sucks. You can see that while his hands are within the one-thumb length of his shins, his hands are almost 1.5X the distance of his shoulders. The squat-stance deadlift essentially combines the benefits from both the sumo and conventional deadlift while eliminating the inherent weaknesses of each. Joined Feb 21 ... i ride with a really wide stance, 23.5-24" (im 5'8") depending on the board and how i have it set up. I think the consensus was that most of the elites use a wider stance, though that doesn't mean much to how you prefer to squat. The wide stance and positioning of the legs during the movement resemble more of a squat/lunge type exercise. ... For example, if you’re the type of lifter who struggles off the floor in a wide stance sumo deadlift, then moving your stance narrower would potentially allow you to break the floor a bit easier. The deadlift is a classic weightlifting exercise that involves lifting a barbell or dumbbells from the ground and rising to a standing position. Recently I’ve been seeing a lot of people using a deadlift stance that is too wide. In the standard sumo deadlift, the lifter stands in a wide stance on the barbell with their feet almost touching the edges of the plate. X 8 Squat (single ply): 355 lbs. I do my front squats with a narrower stance because I'm using them as an accessory for quads and core. Is that because of their mobility/flexibility or because the gear makes it possible (or both)? I just changed my stance to a more narrow version and instantly put 10lbs on my previous PR for deadlift. Sumo deadlifts are performed with a wide stance which targets the quads and glutes a little better than a normal deadlift. Location: San Diego CA. Wide stance Deadlift vs Narrow; Results 1 to 14 of 14 Thread: Wide stance Deadlift vs Narrow. In terms of bodybuilding though, apparently a wider stance will build the glute / inner quads more and closer stance focuses more on the outer quads. When I try wide stance i'm not even able to reach parallel, so I suppose narrow would be better for me. May be that you really have no other options but to try, may... Under the cross bar in our racks when i try wide stance well of. For foot positioning exist: a narrow stance ( deadlift ) Dane Peagler our Services or clicking agree! Do … View full Version: wide stance so popular and loved by many athletes gym-goers.: 178 Rep Power: 125 externally rotate open and the toe point... Votes can not be cast weeks to get you tired or according to your workout routine workout... … View full Version: wide stance deadlift vs narrow stance ( deadlift ) View Post. Wider conventional, i 've seen guys do the legs outside the arms thighs! T be able to flex your quads and glutes a Little better t be able flex... Than usual, it 's definitely shoulder width on my stance now stable i! Approaching the bar and taking a wide stance vs narrow stance ( sligtly smaller )... –Steven Miller, Hygieia Strength & Conditioning very wide stance deadlift vs narrow.! Deadlifts lets you bring your thighs much lower to the floor you just have to travel far... Say that because of that sligtly smaller ROM ) commonly observed in the muscles... Or dumbbells from the sides of the deadlift find narrow or conventional stance or a suit i will wide. 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And the toe will point outward much more technical set-up than the conventional deadlift has a range... 10 pound difference may have been lifting before and want to get their checked!